Starting this thread, just because this subject is one which I've been following since 2 decades now - I already knew that this day would arrive, eventually. Just didn't expect it to happen so soon... Below are pictures of a hailstorm which occurred in Hyderabad city of Pakistan, in late May of this year. These hails were so large that many solar panels got destroyed, car windshields too got smashed, and 3 kids who were playing outside died. Since the last so many hundreds of years this NEVER happened in this area. So nobody believed that it ever could occur. Which is why, unfortunately, nobody took any precautions for such an eventuality... In recent years I myself have experienced torrential rains and flooding which broke all records since 99 years, (since record keeping started). And this hailstorm took place just a hundred miles away from where I am. . And now I'm also seeing on the news that record heatwave is hitting Europe and North America. So I guess we're all in for some interesting times ahead... Anyway these hails were the size of tennis balls, when these pictures were taken, they melted down to around half... Solar panels are designed to withstand normal hailstorms. But this extreme weather, no manufacturer ever took into account. We can say that this was just a one time occurrence. That it's not likely to happen again. But every year seems to be getting more extreme then the last. So anyhow, what extreme weather have you all experienced recently? I'd really like to know. And maybe brainstorm a little, so that we can take better precautions to avoid, (or minimize), such a heavy financial loss - Like the one shown below, where an entire solar panel farm got destroyed.
Looks like a scene from "Day After Tomorrow" As we've not experienced storms like that it must seem like something Biblical going on, but maybe that's something to be thought about. We've not had detailed weather records for most of human history so I wonder how many extreme weather events have happened in the past that would scare the willies out of us now. We've been fortunate to have been living in relatively settled times, until recently we were going through the little ice age, from the 14th to the 19th century. Before that we had the Roman warm period, 250 BC to AD 400. So it's easy to work out that the climate and weather patterns change all the time. Go back further and the planet was frozen for hundreds of thousands of years, even further and it was hell of a lot warmer (Jurassic period) when the ice caps melted but strangely enough life carried on and wasn't wiped out. At the moment the media seems to be trying to terrify everyone as soon as the sun comes out We had a drought last year, this year it's a nice summer but a lot wetter. Oh, and there's the devastating rise in sea level here too...
Yes I agree, Earth has experienced far more extreme temperatures and climate changes since before we've started keeping records. But as for rising sea levels, that's still open to debate in my opinion, (please see link below). https://blogs.egu.eu/divisions/cl/2020/10/16/sinkingoceanfloor/ So this gives us an interesting new perspective. As it not just takes the rising sea levels into account, but the the depth of the ocean floor as well - Which too isn't exactly stable. So as the sea levels rise, the weight of all that extra water above is causing the sea floor in many areas of the world to become deeper. Therefore sea floor sinkage now needs to be paid attention too, otherwise collected data can't be taken as accurate. So no point in panicking just yet. Therefore I don't see sea level rise as anything to worry about immediately, even though I live right at the beach - And so I should be concerned, but to be very honest, I'm not... As whatever changes that might occur, will not happen overnight. So we will still have plenty of time to think and plan accordingly. Same with climate change, we can't stop it from happening now. We should have acted more responsibly 50+ years ago when polluting the planet, but we didn't. So might as well go with the flow today! As trying to fix it now, also won't happen overnight. Therefore we now need ideas to survive it, without suffering too much financial loss. So first thing we need to come up with, is make sure our solar panels don't get destroyed in another hailstorm like this one. As that's something of real value. As it gives us off-grid free and independent power. However humanity is the real problem actually. As natural disasters come, but then also go away too. And they go just as quickly as they came. So in the geological sense, isn't nothing substantial - However what people end up doing to each other, and with each other, during such challenging times - That's what I'm often concerned about... As in the last two decades, I've only witnessed the inability of those in authorities to do anything worthy of praise. They just carry a long face in from of TV cameras while giving an apologetic press conference. That's why I always have a loaded heavy caliber firearm in my arms reach whenever in bed, (just in case). As I know they will never respond in time. Therefore I alone will have to fix whatever is thrown my way... Also, the Carrington Event of 1859, (a massive solar flair), which hit the Earth. Also is something which can happen again at any time. In 1859 however, it just knocked out telegraph lines. But beyond that, since the world wasn't as advanced nor so dependant on electricity as we are today. Is the reason why the Carrington Event is often only mentioned as just a footnote. As it simply created a beautiful display of northern lights, which even those living in the tropics could also see, (because of the electromagnetic disturbance in the upper atmosphere). https://adventures.com/blog/carrington-event-biggest-solar-storm/ But if such an event happened today, now, when we are so dependant on digital communications and power to run everything - To a point that many areas of the world have now evolved into a cashless society, (as people now pay by NFC chips and using smartphones to buy something). Then were will we be, if for a few days of a week, all global communications will be down? Again, natural disasters come, but also go. And they always go away just as quickly as they came. But what people in desperation end up doing to each other - That's actually the real disaster which not many can see is brewing on the horizon... Because that's when even the biggest and most ferocious animal on the planet, will get put to shame - In comparison to someone who's temporarily forgotten his or her humanity. It's like trying to rescue someone who's drowning. You need to be very careful about it. Because in panic, should they try grabbing onto you. Then you'll both drown - Such is how people are, during challenging situations... Anyway, now see this video below. As it shows how much hail damage a solar panel can take. It's actually pretty impressive, as manufacturers do make them pretty strong. But now just imagine, what sort of an impact it would have taken, to destroy the panels I've shown at the top of this thread.
Don’t worry about climate. AI is the new proposed fear overshadowing climate. Fear is the major selling apparatus of our times. Live with humor and foil them all
That’s really hard to take when so much damage is done not only to your home, roof , property , also cars , windows, and what happened to all your garden plants? Been thru a couple of those huge hail storms it had wiped out our home roof, dimpled our cars, broken windows and sliced plants to smithereens….had to replace our home roof and two cars were damaged so badly the insurance company totaled them.. not to mention the loss of the whole garden that year. Also the huge hail storm which was 10 miles wide by 8 miles long sent many people trapped on rides at amusement parks to the hospital for stitches. Wacky weather. I have seen the results of climate change all over the world the last few years and it is not a good thing… Along with climate change came ‘Fire Season’, a new season for us and we have 25 active forest fires just in Oregon state. All we can do is hope we don’t have any field fires . This past week been cutting grass hay in the pastures which is now unfortunately called fuel for forest fires not just hay feed for animals.
No, I have not experienced this in my area. So my garden and plants are safe. As I already mentioned above at the top of this thread, this was around a hundred miles away from me. However when we are talking about a storms of such magnitude, 100 miles is actually nothing, like a stone throw away distance - So it can indeed happen over here too, if it occurred that close. Yes, climate change is real, no matter what anyone says. In fact the absolute worst thing any ignorant person can do right now, is to try and politicize the whole issue, (which is a sure way of insuring that absolutely nothing gets done). Meanwhile the climate continues to get more and more extreme with each passing day. 10+ years ago, right over here at our GardenStew forum, I use to say that it's getting way too hot here for me. And I said that it's now getting worse each year. But the majority did not believe me, nor cared. I'm living just one degree above the Tropic of Cancer, so I experienced this first. And I predicted that in a few years Europe and North America too is going to experience all this plus more, (but the majority just laughed behind my back). OK, fine, now go and enjoy the record high summer temperatures and spontaneous forest fires, with drought, and torrential downpour resulting in flooding like never seen before! Only a few listened and agreed with me. Because at the end of the day we are all happy gardeners here. So we all share the same pleasures, but unfortunately, we also have common fears too. Because nobody desires to see their garden ruined. So you all already know who you are. Therefore thanks guys for at least understanding the whole issue correctly. We already knew that there won't be much we would be able to do about it when it'll happen. But you at least correctly grasping the issue still meant a lot to me. So thanks once more. Now please see these 2 short videos below of my area. I've practically lived here all my life. And never before did I see waves so high, that seawater came onto the road. https://youtube.com/shorts/yoDCOvi2Aq0?feature=share Golf course next to the ocean in my area too is now getting flooded everytime there is a storm surge - All of this never happened when I was a kid living here. https://youtube.com/shorts/1w-SopNDTzA?feature=share @Jewell AI doesn't scare me at all. Because I believe that it's actually the natural course of evolution - Where our own technical abilities will now very quickly make us evolve beyond anything we've ever been able to imagine before. So I very strongly believe that eventually humanity will merge with artificial intelligence, and together we will result in a new AI, augmented intelligence... This way artificial intelligence will perhaps get a soul from us, and we will get immortality from it. I think this is inevitable, as I feel this is how all societies in the universe evolve into their final state. Which we too will soon attain. So I really don't fear AI, nor do I dread human DNA modifications either. I somehow feel that AI and other new technologies might save us from the mess we've already fallen into... Of course, here the argument now is that we ourselves created the bulk of this mess - Thinking that innovative technologies at that time would save us all. Which for a time did work also. As pesticides did boost global food production. But now we have DDT in the environment. So I will admit, that there is always a factor of fear whenever trying out something new. But I have an optimistic view about AI. As whenever we bungled up in the past, by misusing technology or just applying it wrong - We did so without a tool like AI. So maybe this was the missing ingredient??? Either that, or this time we will really crash and burn spectacularly, while misusing AI too... But this also I'll now welcome with delight. Because now if we succeed, then we will be fine forever, ushering in a new area of progress and prosperity! Or, if we get this wrong too, (exactly like the millions of other wrong things we've done up till today), then everything will be over very soon also this time. So at the very least, it will end the status quo for good - Which actually is the very thing that's been sapping my energy throughout my entire adult life. Therefore I welcome either of these 2 scenarios, as I'm fully prepared for both. But this status quo of doing absolutely nothing, now needs to end.
Sorry to hear that Pac. You've seen the results of weather that happens all the time, has done for millennia and will do for eons more. I don't think what you've seen is the result of a one degree (yes, one degree) rise in average global temperatures in the past 100 years. Yes it is, has been ever since the Earth developed a climate. Just because we haven't experienced something in our lifetimes or we don't remember it being like that when we were kids doesn't mean to say it didn't happen or that it won't happen again. We might find it a bit of a trial living in a warm period, like you say, floods, storms etc. but it sure as hell beats living in an ice age. Even now, I think you'll find more people die from cold than heat. Climate change is being used as a stick to beat the living carp out of people, they are making out that all the weather is our fault, be it hot, cold, wet, dry, on fire or just plain foggy. It's not. The climate will change even if every last one of us were to die tomorrow. There is absolutely nothing wrong with preventing pollution, looking after nature, wildlife and every environment and habitat that we can, but plunging ourselves into poverty, destroying forests, and mining every last bit of lithium to "pretend" that we're being green is wrong on every level. And as for record high temperatures, it was hotter in the last interglacial than it is in this one, the ice still came back and covered most of Northern Europe and Canada though.
Although it is true that the entire Earth everywhere has experienced not just climate change, but geological change as well. So it's a natural process of things, that things will always be changing - The only constant is change... Therefore there is no argument over this issue at this perticular point. However the thing to debate is, that are humans responsible for speeding up this change for the worst??? Observations at many different levels clearly prove without any doubt - That in geological time, humanity has drastically altered the environment. At a pace which naturally would have taken eons. Yet we now have caused it in only 4 generations, (since industrialization began). So obviously, the balance of nature is out... Which is why we are experiencing extreme weather. Because nature will automatically correct itself. And the faster we change the environment - The more extreme way nature will react. Of course, I welcome a healthy and constructive debate, (Socrates is one of my favorite personalities in history). So I have voiced my opinions and concerns with logic over here already - No gun is pointed at anyone's hand who disagrees. Because that too is how we actually learn, when we are open to what others are saying. Only when we stop doing this, is when we become the real losers. Because stagnation of thought equals to death of the intellect. Which in my opinion is a far greater wrong.
I guess I am more of a stoic and realize only my response is within my power to control. Working on tempering myself and not being a part of the hate and fear. from the Daily Stoic (July 24th)by Ryan Holiday ““Whenever disturbing news is delivered to you, bear in mind that no news can ever be relevant to your reasoned choice. Can anyone break news to you that your assumptions or desires are wrong? No way! But they can tell you someone died—even so, what is that to you?” —EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 3.18.1–2 A well-meaning friend might ask you today: “What do you think about [insert tragedy from the other side of the world]?” You, in your equally well-meaning concern, might say, “I just feel awful about it.” In this scenario, both of you have put aside your reasoned choice without doing a single thing for the victims suffering from the actual tragedy. It can be so easy to get distracted by, even consumed by, horrible news from all over the world. The proper response of the Stoic to these events is not to not care, but mindless, meaningless sympathy does very little either (and comes at the cost of one’s own serenity, in most cases). If there is something you can actually do to help these suffering people, then, yes, the disturbing news (and your reaction to it) has relevance to your reasoned choice. If emoting is the end of your participation, then you ought to get back to your own individual duty—to yourself, to your family, to your country.”
But it looks like it's beyond everyone's control now, and steadily getting worse. Which is why I invited a constructive debate and brainstorming - For solutions...
Global warming has changed area around the world. In fact Portland Oregon.the county of Portland is… Multnomah County has joined a slew of states and municipalities across the U.S. in suing the largest fossil fuel corporations and petroleum trade associations to recover costs associated with responding to extreme weather events linked to climate change. The lawsuit, filed Thursday in Circuit Court, alleges the combined carbon pollution emitted by the companies over decades was a substantial factor in causing and exacerbating the 2021 heat dome, which killed 69 people in a county known for its typically mild summer weather. The complaint also asserts the companies have known for decades about the harmful impact of fossil fuels on the climate but chose to deceive the public about the effects – and continue to portray them as harmless to the environment. “At the core, this lawsuit is about fairness and accountability for these giant oil companies who have record profits, who have known about the damage that their products do to our environment and who have been using pseudoscience, disinformation and outright lies for decades,” Multnomah County chair Jessica Vega Pederson told The Oregonian/OregonLive. “They have prevented us from making the changes needed to protect our climate and protect our community.” The county is seeking more than $51 billion in damages, including $50 million for the costs it says it incurred as a result of the heat dome, including establishing emergency cooling centers for thousands of heat-stressed residents, supplying air conditioning units to residents, responding to heat-related illnesses and preparing for severe public health emergencies related to extreme heat and wildfires. The county also seeks $1.5 billion in future damages to cover costs associated with future extreme heat events as well as another $50 billion to study, plan, and upgrade public health care services and infrastructure to “weatherproof” itself against extreme heat. This would include mitigation measures such as expanding healthcare and emergency services, adding new insulation and HVAC systems to buildings, tearing out asphalt and planting more trees, among others, Pederson said. “The heat dome that cost so much life and loss was not a natural weather event,” the lawsuit states. It “was a direct and foreseeable consequence of the Defendants’ decision to sell as many fossil fuel products over the last six decades as they could and to lie to the County, the public, and the scientific community about the catastrophic harm that pollution from those products into the Earth’s and the County’s atmosphere would cause.” The suit names Exxon Mobil, Shell, Chevron, BP, ConocoPhillips, Motiva, Occidental Petroleum, Anadarko Petroleum, Space Age Fuel, Valero Energy, Total Specialties USA, Marathon Petroleum, Peabody Energy, Koch Industries, American Petroleum Institute, Western States Petroleum Association and McKinsey & Company, a New York City-based global management consulting giant. The Oregonian/OregonLive has reached out to several of the companies for comment but most did not respond. In the past, some have filed to dismiss similar complaints, but most have argued the cases need to be moved to federal court, stalling them for years. The defendants and their advocates have said the lawsuits will do nothing to address climate change, its impacts or root causes and have denied they’re responsible for the alleged climate impacts.
Here in this link below, the late Dr. Carl Sagan explained in simple to understand language - What the greenhouse effect really is. And why we should be paying attention to it. https://twitter.com/PhysInHistory/status/1691824080205324776?s=20 He said this in 1985, but sadly, even today, 38 years later - Nobody is listening... YouTube link below.
Personally, I don't believe in "global warming", but there are many signs of the time of the End. Another online friend was reading where this was a record hot summer and people did not remember such a hot summer. I remember lots of summers MUCH hotter than this one. It may have been a record hot summer in Texas, I have not seen the numbers (even though my one son lives down there). I lived in Texas for ten years. They can keep it. It was miserably hot every summer I was down there. They get 10 months of miserable hot weather, and 2 months of whatever. But for Missouri, our summer was about average. We did get extra rain in July and early August which is unusual, but not unheard of. I am 69, and remember many very hot summers. 1980 was extremely hot at least in Texas. They were even selling T shirts that said, "I survived Texas summer of 1980." Maybe that was a gimmick? I think it is a ploy to sell their "new world order" nonsense. It is too bad about the children who died. Things can be replaced. I guess such a hail storm has not happened in the past 100 years apparently, but now people know it can happen, even if rarely. I would not know how to protect the solar panels or cars and windows from the hail stones though.
