Yep @Clay_22 The planet does indeed have cycles that can swing from very hot to very cold. Various factors influence it. It started off very hot, the sea was an average temperature between 50 to 85 Celcius, that's a very hot bath. There have been some sudden plummets in temperature, the worse one being the Permian ice age when I believe the North and South polar ice sheets nearly met at the equator. But over all the planet has been getting colder, by a huge amount. The last ice age had 4 interglacials that were warmer than it is now, but the over all trend in the Tertiary epoch has been very cold. Something has warmed the planet up a little bit in the past few years, maybe mankind had a bit of a hand in it but seeing how atmospheric CO2 is the lowest it's ever been geologically, I think we've got a long way to go before we can reverse the trend. Going back to that last bit, CO2 being the lowest it's ever been, it's currently about 414 parts per million. The last time it was this low was before the last ice age. Before that it was way, way higher. I agree that we ought to do everything that we can as a species to prevent pollution, conserve resources and look after the envioronment and all the other plants and animals that share the planet with us. I don't agree with someone telling me it's my fault that the planet is warming and using it as an excuse to charge me more tax. The planet has produced and coped with far more CO2 before, when there were no ice caps and the atmosphere was laden with it, plants and zooplancton used the abundance to grow, most of our plants evolved to use the higher CO2 levels. The chalk was formed from the shells of sea creatures and was laid down around 1000 feet thick across the world. Same with the coal measures, these both locked up huge amounts of carbon taken from the atmosphere. In short, the planet healed itself. It didn't need any climate agreement or any tax on volcanic emmissions. I do agree also that the planet is currently warming. A welcome change after the last million years of ice age. We will see more extremes of weather as it warms, but at least we'll have a reasonable amount of land to live on. If the ice sheets started rolling again then Northern Europe, Canada, half of North America, South America and some of Australia and New Zealand would be either under a Mile thick sheet of ice or permafrost. We could stop all fossil fuel use tomorrow but we didn't use any coal, oil or gas in the Jurassic period and CO2 was 10 times higher than it is now. Maybe the dinosaurs got the blame for global warming back then?
I would like to point out that the last posting from Zigs was NOT an opinion, but factual points collected from years of reading and study. What we both avidly believe is that mankind is greedy and destructive. We all need to do what we can to protect what wildlife we still have left. We should stop filling the place with concrete and stop cutting down trees. Stop using poisons and leave insects alone. David Attenborough summed it up when he said ''we shouldn't waste any of it'' It interests me to start hearing about what is recently being discovered under the melting ice, which proves conclusively that things used to be different. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...orway-reveals-1700-year-old-sandal-180979972/
Beeker, I know that Zigs can answer your question. I will chase him up to find time to answer you a.s.a.p
Thanks, @Tetters . It was more of a point than an actual question for my own sake. However, a couple of other memories I'd like to refresh are basic earth science things I learned in 3rd grade. I'm sure everybody learned the importance of CO2 and plant life. Not only that but the various NASA studies done on plants and the different chemicals they clean from the air such as benzene and formaldehyde, among others. Plants thrive on CO2 and need it to survive just like we need our vitamins, minerals and even bacteria to survive. What do plants produce? Oxygen. They filter the chemicals and toxins out of the air and inject oxygen. It is a big balancing act, but what do the climate alarmists want to do as a way to "combat climate change"? Cut down thousands of acres of trees to build solar panel and wind turbine farms. Things that are guaranteed to ruin the environment and important ecosystems. To add a little more on to what @Zigs and @Clay_22 are saying, I'd like to mention that many scientists point to an ice age thousands of years ago and state that the ice has been receding for thousands of years. With that in mind, why would people be upset if the multi-thousand year trend continues?
From what I have recently learned (from Zigs, and a little research) the ice age began 2.4 million years ago - until 11,500 years ago. Since then it has slowly diminished, meaning that the ice has indeed been receding again - at least until about 2,000 years ago when it got colder again, resulting in various seas and rivers (eg the Thames) freezing over up to Victorian times (aka the little ice age) Now it seems to be warming up a bit again. It is the bigger picture we need to learn about, which would save a lot of kids being scared out of their wits on the subject (for starters) King Canute never did get the tide to stop did he?
I agree @Beeker Plants need CO2 and there's less in the atmosphere than they're used to using. When it was this warm in Roman times, we grew grapes in the South of England and Greenland was being farmed by the Vikings, then it got too cold for both of these things. There were undoubtably floods and wildfires back then too, but there was nowhere near the amount of people, none of the vast monocultures and huge swathes of concrete poured all over the land to make natural events into the disasters that they are today. We've all heard today of the 33 million people affected by the floods in Pakistan, last time it was this warm there were only 300 million people on the planet so far more people will be affected this time. Thousands of people died when Doggerland (Between England and Holland) was flooded after the last Ice age. If a similar amount of land in Europe was flooded now it would be millions instead.
@Zigs @Tetters I was just mulling over my reply, when you both gave very good responses. CO2 is life and a cycle between plants and animals. Everything in nature is cyclic. I always have my doubts when politicians of all stripes and media are pushing an agenda. They never mention the poisons they are dumping into the environment. These are the real problems. Cutting down trees Willy nilly is also really dumb.
@Odif it is the way that animal species are being ignored and often abused, usually for monetary gain and sometimes are sheer wicked sadism fuelled, and the over use of poisons on the land which tries to give us our food causing increased destruction that saddens us so. What makes us angry is the way Governments throw out ridiculous claims about details they should know a little more about - as they all attended well paid upper class learning establishments, and drumming up false scaremongering, whilst using the mayhem to increase our taxes and bleeding us dry - like the climate change levy for example. Generally people will follow like sheep, with little thought for checking out the details for themselves thinking they are the cause of this terrible change in the temperature. This is not the case is it!
Since the world is going to hell in a handbasket, I plan to corner the market on handbaskets. I'm sure there will be a big demand very shortly.
Much respect and regards to KK I thought we were discussing the subject brought up by him, I.E. climate change? Sorry for staying on topic and discussing the subject on an open forum, we won't do it again...
Mel, Zigs nothing to be sorry about and I am happily following this thread. The discussion here is interesting and I am made aware of things that I did not know before. Thanks for those interesting and factual posting. Mel thank you for your generosity but I think it is too much trouble ... ahh ... real strawberry jam yum!!!
@eileen Zigs doesn't like stepping on anyone's toes. He started reading geology etc whilst in his sick bed when he was 6 years old. He is a mine of information, but not a big head. @KK Ng we are really grateful for your comments, but will probably just leave things alone for now.
I read this thread and was surprised that Frank didn't shut it down. While I agree with KK, I truly and sincerely hope that the climate change that many scientists describe is an exaggeration, or as you all say just normal swings in the Earth's climate. I truly truly hope you all are right. I would love to be wrong.
Why should he? This looks like a very civil and educational thread. Thank you, all for the amazing conversation. It is so refreshing to be able to discuss important topics in a scientific way and not devolving to childish foot stomping remarks. @KK Ng Thank you for the interesting article and I hope your strawberries make a good comeback!
